Baby Pigeon Full Crop Baby Pigeon Empty Crop

Posts : xv Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, U.k.

Hello Pigeon Angels,

I was hoping for some communication and establish ur website. I am currently hand raising a babe fantail and take been since 1 solar day old. I done massive amounts of research and equally a result he has been doing absolutely brilliantly and is now ii wks sometime. All the same 2 days ago following a big feed i noticed his crop hadnt emptied ... i proceeded to feed him simply apple tree cider vinegar h2o for 24 hours (which i accept e'er used to mix his Kaytee formula) and massaged the crop. Equally a result the leftover nutrient in the crop became very liquidy and i was certain it would pass ... nevertheless things are even so dull :S ... his crop will not empty completely however as he has been pooping i accept today given him small amounts of very diluted Kaytee and poops are still coming and appear normal (sometimes black, dark brown with white or dark brown tinged green with white). I know the crop needs to empty but i was nervous for him goin so long with out whatsoever kind of food ... but like i say its very dilute.

He is good in himself and very active ... i noticed that his ingather appeared very saggy, so i accept now attempted with vet tape to "ingather bra" him. I am still concerned that the last liquidy food wont clear through still tho. I have looked in his oral fissure and its beautifully pink with no white patches and doesnt smell ... i hav also smelt his poop :S and they dont smell either.

Im petrified of losing him as am very attached and have gone through serious burnout to become him this far. Unfortunately there appears only one Avian vet in my area ... who i took him to final week to help me tape a splay leg (which has fixed beautifully) only i seemed to know more nigh how to care for them then she did. Im worried how long he can survive on only the small dilute amounts of Kaytee (maximum 5-half dozen mls at a time diluted one kaytee to v water).

Could someone offering whatsoever further reassurance or advice regarding my crop issue?? I would be extremely grateful. Many thanks.

Hi Fantail39,

Sorry to hear the baby is having difficulty elimination his crop. I would suggest five things to practice asap: keep him warm, temporarily replace the formula by (human being) baby apple sauce (perfect pH and like shooting fish in a barrel to absorb), feed him piffling and oft (8ml max. per feed), massage his ingather frequently, merely especially after a drink or feed, and go hold of Nystatin to combat any existing or latent yeast infection, which is e'er the upshot of a slow ingather. A little warm water with ACV, equally you lot've been doing, is likewise a good thought.

If the situation doesn't better in 24 hours, the baby volition take to have the contents of the crop flushed at the vet's, and will almosy certainly need an antibiotic.

The ingather bra won't help in this example, unless his crop is sagging from beingness overfed. The presence of liquid and/or air in the crop when it should exist empty indicates either a blockage (might he have canker or worms? Did he ingest something he shouldn't?), a GI tract infection (perhaps not, if he's in good spirits), or some problem with the feeding routine, similar the food not being at the correct temperature.

I'm including a couple of good links on slow crop / crop stasis / yeast infection. I hope that helps. Please go along us posted.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t2435-candidiasis-infectionyeast

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t966-sour-crop-article

Thank you very much for that Teresa ... I really managed to find some other vet this morning a piffling way from me and hav just got home.

The vet examined EggBert's poop and crop affair nether the microscope and found no infection, paracites or fungal :) he proceeded to remove the crop thing with tube (which was around 5 mls worth) and so rinsed with saline. He has given me a Probiotic to add to EggBerts food for the next few days and advises that i become back to the start with feedings lilliputian and often and very dilute, increasing consistency gradually each solar day. His thoughts are that i increased corporeality and consistency too quickly and hence caused the crop event this way.

EggBert is ok but a little stressed from the procedure and then am letting him settle down and warm up for a niggling while longer and then will go some food into him.

I will keep u posted and thanks again, fingers crossed for a healthy EggBert :)

Thank you then much for the wonderful update! Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 142829 Feeling great Celebrate

I'm so glad that the babe has been seen by someone actually practiced and caring, and that he'due south going to be alright!
The crop flushing procedure your vet did is precisely every bit described in one of the links I'd posted. I'm and so glad all the stagnant stuff has come out and didn't have enough time to first a yeast infection. Your keen observation of the footling ane and decisive activeness were pinnacle notch! Way To Go

Yous know what'southward coming upward next, don't you? At present that you told us about the baby, everybody will want to come across him... So if you take the adventure, please post a photograph of him -- I love babe pigeons! Happy

Only in case: http://www.pigeonangels.com/t709-instructions-for-posting-pictures

Posts : xv Bring together engagement : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Give thanks you! and of form I hav taken pictures of EggBerts development :) so will endeavour postal service some for you to coo over now! Laughing

Posts : 15 Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Oh brother Sorry, ive simply tried to post pics of my gorgeous EggBert merely plain as i am now to the forums, I am not immune to for 7 days!?! :(

Posts : 15 Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

"new" to the forums!! i will run across if i can contact someone to ask :)

Last edited by Teresa on Sat May 24, 2014 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total

That'south a new one on me! Hmmm I wonder why that'south happening, peradventure some setting changed...

If you go along having problems, email them to me and I'll post them for you! Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 142829

Hi Fantail, Hi there/Bye
Welcome to Pigeon Angels. It's great to have you hither.

Thank yous so much for caring for Eggbert. Pigeon angel
I'm glad you were able to become him checked out and that he'south doing OK.

I take never heard of having to wait seven days earlier posting a picture show either.
It could be just a crazy glitch or something the server has done, equally I have no command over settings like that.
Whatsoever the example may be, I wish it would 'correct' itself. Disappointed

_________________
Cindy

A Dove'southward Prayer
Please watch over us while nosotros fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If nosotros become ill or injured in any fashion,
Pcharter lead us to safety where nosotros are welcome to stay.

Posts : xv Join appointment : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

I accept emailed pictures to Teresa and hopefully she can post :) am gonna take some more today of EggBert as he looks very dissimilar and is at present 15 days former Happy

Eggbert is such a cutie!!! I love it/them

Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon IMGP0773-238

Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon IMGP0780-258

Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 10days3-019

Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 10days5

Posts : xv Bring together date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Yay!! Thanks for that :) ... his wings hav bizarrely trebled in size in the last couple of days and then volition take some new pics tomorrow I love it/them cheers

Posts : 15 Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Hey guys,

Jus some other update with EggBert ... his ingather still appears tiresome :S taking nigh viii - 12 hours to empty and so is only getting a maximum of three 8ml Kaytee a twenty-four hours :( im worried this is not enough, withal he is crazy active, jumping all over the place and pooping well, so i am confused!! the main reason being is that i keep reading on forums how much he "should" be eating and it appears a lot more!! Could it be that he is jus built this manner?? Are Fantails smaller than other pigeons and maybe eat less?? Exercise pigeons crops and amounts of food jus vary in each individual bird??

I have plant some organic baby apple puree today and bought a few cartons to maybe try, but hes E'er been on ACV water. Like i say he is active and chirpy and appears to be growing, his feathers are getting longer and thicker every mean solar day ... should i jus accept that as long equally he is happy and developing, all will be ok?? Hmmm

Thanks for reading and for ur support. Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 142829

Hi Fantail39,

A maximum of 24ml formula per day actually isn't enough for a infant that age. At this time, when he's growing so quickly, he should be getting much more than than that, around 60ml. It's expert that'due south he's active and lively, simply at this crucial stage Eggbert needs to have acceptable diet, otherwise his evolution and wellness will be affected.
There isn't a huge amount of difference between young squeakers of dissimilar breeds of pigeons. I don't have fantails, but I understand they are larger than common feral pigeons.

If the crop is really taking 8 hours or more than to empty from an 8ml feed, at that place's still a problem, and you may need to phone your vet and discuss this with him/her.
The apple sauce usually allows the ingather to empty a lot more quickly. It doesn't have equally many nutrients as the formula, but it'southward very like shooting fish in a barrel to digest and it keeps the right pH in the gut. I hope it volition solve the slow crop problem.

Just as a dominion of thumb, whatsoever patient of mine who tin can't manage more than 8ml of formula per feed needs to exist fed every 3 hours -- just of course, the crop must accept emptied earlier each feed.

Hi Fantail, Hi there/Bye
Thank you for the update and pictures. Eggbert is adorable.

Give thanks you for posting the photos, Teresa.

I did notice in the 2nd moving picture his right leg is sticking out quiet a bit.
This could easily turn into a splayed leg state of affairs if not watched carefully to make sure his legs are under him. Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 142829

Just a thoguht . . . Y'all might want to put a little launder cloth under him so he has something to really grip in to.

Nosotros await forward to future updates and of course photos. Smile

_________________
Cindy

A Dove's Prayer
Please scout over us while we wing,
One thousandeeping united states of america safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we get ill or injured in whatsoever way,
Pcharter atomic number 82 us to safety where we are welcome to stay.

Posts : xv Join engagement : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Cheers for the replies guys ... correct, EggBert's crop appears to now be elimination past 6 hours and Im feeding him between 13 and 15mls a fourth dimension. Ive given some of the Organic Apple Puree and hoping that is besides profitable and his probiotic powder once a day. He appears well so far :) I was holding back a bit on the corporeality due to desperately not wanting to cause crop issues once again. I will go on u posted, but am hoping to steadily increase his food intake each day.

In relation to the right leg, yep it appeared splay simply I taped it upwardly with vet tape when he was five days one-time and after four days it was perfect and still is and very strong :) hes flapping and hopping all over the place with no problems cheers

Just 1 more thing, I noticed this morning for the showtime time that EggBert jumped out of his piddling nest and began "pecking" at the kitchen towel flooring he is on ... could this mean seeds at some fourth dimension soon?!?! He is 3 weeks old on Monday ... I did get to the pet shop the other day and saw Pigeon seed but its very large!! What would you recommend he start with??

Thank you again for your ever support and help :)

Hi Fantail39,

Expert to know that you started correcting his splayed leg when he was 5 days onetime, but his bones are notwithstanding hardening and it may reoccur. I agree with Cindy that it would exist a good idea to brand sure whatever surfaces he walks/rests on let his anxiety to get a grip, and a donut-shaped nest (similar a rolled-upward, curved towel) would be great, so he tin rest without putting too much weight on his legs.
The thing with splays, fifty-fifty slight ones, is that once they get past 3-4 weeks it's too late to practise anything about it.

Please don't increase the amounts of food he'southward eating just nonetheless, especially if the crop is still a bit saggy, because if some of the food accumulates in the folds information technology will stay there to fester and cause bacterial and fungal infections. I would go with your vet'due south recommendation of feeding footling and often. I personally wouldn't go above 10ml five/six times a day at the moment.

Our member Matilda also recommends smaller amounts of nutrient more than oftentimes, and said that Eggbert may however need that ingather bra, and that information technology'south important to check if the formula isn't too thick.

Well-nigh the seeds, he'due south at the age when he starts getting interested in them. That'due south great news! Only I would hold on for a few days more, to make sure the irksome crop trouble is definitely cured.
After that, I ordinarily start them on thawed frozen peas and corn, served overnice and warm, popping them into his beak and well to the end of the throat, 1 at a time. Near 35-40 three times a day is expert.
Some other good idea is to buy pigeon mix for him, which has a very like limerick to pigeon mix, but much smaller grains.
Other members offer small wild bird seeds. These aren't as nutritious, considering dissimilar parakeets and others, little pigeons don't have the correct beaks to beat out them.

When his crop is functioning properly and he can safely be given seed, y'all can put some in a basin and "peck" at them with your index finger and thumb, and soon plenty his curiosity will lead him to re-create what y'all're doing.

PS. Would love to meet what he looks like now!
Anything like this? http://www.albertaclassic.net/youth3.htm

You can e-mail me the photos every bit before, if you like. Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 142829

Posts : xv Bring together date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Thank you again Teresa, i really appreciate ur advice!! Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 116281

Ok, i will keep it easy on the food however i am now dorsum to piece of work :( i hav been off for the last couple of weeks, simply now back and work a minimum of 9 hours a 24-hour interval so tried to requite him a little extra to become him through whilst im away, yet my work have been very good and are trying to permit me to pop domicile in one case a shift but the timing depends on how busy we are :Due south (emergency services)

In relation to the leg, i did hav him sitting on an anti slip mat (used in incubators) but i took that out a couple of days ago thinking it wasnt needed, but maybe should pop it back in for a short while.

I volition keep monitoring him and hopefully nex wk i will try and get him eating some peas Happy Dance

I hav been trying to accept some new pictures to evidence u as he is really coming out with feathers now, but he doesnt sit still for a moment then they all come out blurred!!!! i will keep trying!!!

Posts : 15 Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

Ive just seen the picture ... hes not quite there yet Disappointed

Now am worried!!! his feather are practiced on his wings and chest, around the rear end but not quite covered on the body withal ... they are getting more than and more than every solar day and so i really promise he catches up before long Very sad

It's really difficult to look after a youngster when you have to work ix hour shifts! I tin understand why y'all were trying to feed him more, less often.

I don't suppose you have anyone who can help you with that? Simply a idea, when I come unstuck like that I get my veterinary dispensary to wait after the youngster/patient until I can manage (or the bird tin can). Would that be very expensive for you?

Posts : 15 Join date : 2011-09-04 Location : London, UK

I have received your email Teresa ... thank yous so much again for ur communication and support, i dont know where i would be without information technology!!

Unfortunately im having a really bad time with EggBert and im really really scared im goin to lose him :'( ... i desperately tried to slightly increase his food corporeality on Friday and managed to become 35 mls in him for the day and so Sat I just managed to get thirty mls in which did not empty. I started on Friday giving some apple tree sauce and all his feeds yesterday were also supplemented with it. Since Midnight this forenoon he has had only apple sauce every iii hours ... he is doing some poops and they appear normal. As he is still small for his age, I am so scared about him losing weight with having no formula. I take again examined his mouth and in that location are no signs of infection and his poop still doesnt smell.

This is exactly how i prepare and serve EggBerts food and how i continue him, delight tell me if i could amend anywhere; EggBert is in my room with a large plastic crate with a lid ... i leave this about 1-2 cms off to allow fresh air. he is sitting on a towel over a heat mat, in that location is kitchen roll downwardly (for ease of replacing when pooped on) and i as well hav some incubator non skid matting down. i hav a jar in the crate which has some water in to let humidity. my thermometer normally reads 93 degrees for temperature and between 40 and 48% humidity. when i prepare EggBerts food i brand certain my easily are clean and all utensils are boiled with hot water afterward employ. i utilise ACV water to prepare his formula (Exact) and e'er serve this to EggBert between 102 and 104 degrees without fail. He eats well from a nipple/syringe method. I hav been mixing formula 6 parts water to about 1 and iii quarters role formula ... information technology is nicely runny without existence overly watery (hope that makes sense). Every bit i said, i hav been adding one office apple sauce also. I hav been giving a pinch of probiotics and now a pinch of multi vit with calcium in one feed a mean solar day.

As information technology is Sunday, a suitable vet is impossible to get, therefore i am hoping to become him seen tomorrow simply the vet was quite negative about the whole affair last week and so im nervous he is gonna just try and put him to slumber or something :( ... i also feel that again he volition tell me there is no infection like last time and if this is the case, what on world could exist wrong and causing this outcome?!?!?! Very sad

also, another flake of bad news, since the mention on the forum virtually his splay leg (which was happily corrected), i yesterday noticed that he was not using this leg that dandy anymore and the toes are curled up :Southward ... i hav a friend popping round shortly to assistance me re-record them *sigh* ... i am so attached to EggBert, i cannot imagine not having him!!! I am also so exhausted and so very emotional Not feeling well Very sad

thank you for reading x

ps Teresa, im sorry to hear about Halo only hope she is doin ok?? well washed, you certainly sound similar a existent pigeons angel :) Handrearing crop issues - 2 wk old baby pigeon 116281

Hang on in at that place, I'll attempt to find y'all someone in London who tin help!

I've messaged several friends in the United kingdom of great britain and northern ireland -- someone has to have a reliable contact in London.

Sonja, I don't suppose you have whatever meds for him, as he tested negative for everything at the vet's. Whatever the vet said or says, and as everything else y'all did was perfectly correct, I'd have to assume he does have herpes, and that's causing the sour ingather and an existant or latent GI tract infection.

I've appealed on Facebook for the contacts of experienced pigeon people in London who may have the meds you crave, as I know yous won't be able to get them at the drop of a hat on a Sunday, and without a prescription.

He needs an antibiotic, an antiprotozoal and Nystatin.

For the sake of anyone reading this, I'm including the relevant part of my email to Sonja:

Turning the temperature upward only a notch was a brilliant thought! Was at that place a draft, even a slight one, where Eggbert was? I usually drapery a towel over the sides and back of the cage to keep the warmth in, but unwrapping the mat a bit seems to accept done the trick -- skilful thinking!

Another thought: massaging his crop frequently, downwards, to encourage the food to move -- peculiarly after meals and drinks.

What about the temperature of the food? Is it just over 90ºF besides? Because if it gets besides cold between preparation and feeding, information technology will slow down the digestion. The same goes for whatsoever drinking water.

I've too heard that sometimes the formula tin thicken upward into lumps in the crop and that makes it harder to assimilate. To be on the safe side, it might be a good idea to add together only a trivial more water to his formula while his digestion is dull.
And the apple tree sauce should help a lot, as that goes through the system very easily, and the acidity helps digestion. Information technology shouldn't have whatsoever added sugar, just the natural sugar from the fruit, or it will ferment and lead to a yeast/fungus (Candida) infection.

Although your vet tested him and he was OK, do look out for signs of:

one) Yeast infection, the almost obvious signs being a sour smell coming from within his beak, and air or excessive h2o memory in the ingather. If y'all can, get some Nystatin oral intermission (marketed as Mycostatin, Nilstat or Nystex), as it's smashing to accept on paw. The one I use is Mycostatin, 0.3ml twice a day for an adult dove.

2) Herpes/Trichomoniasis, which is the most mutual cause of slow crop. In its early stages it may non exist seen if not enough protozoans were present in the surface area tested. There are some good links hither, describing the symptoms: http://world wide web.pigeonangels.com/t238-herpes-trichomoniasis
The best treatment for herpes is Flagyl (Metronidazole) or that plus Spartrix (Carnidazole). Dosages depend on the bird's weight and the severity of the disease.

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